|
Post by kristi on Jan 23, 2014 13:00:09 GMT -8
Does anyone want to guess the possible colours of the foal resulting in crossing Lokota Chic and Jacs Katie Rose? Katie is a "dunalino" with grey in her mane and tail. She has dun and cream genes, but I believe only one of each. She has two white legs and a sock plus a medium blaze. Lokota is a "chestnut" or liver chestnut, with rabicano - roaning in the flanks and a coon tail. I think he has four stockings/socks and a wide blaze. I can try to get more pics later but lunch hour is over again! (how does that happen when I am having fun on the forum???)
|
|
|
Post by bullyforme on Jan 23, 2014 18:45:10 GMT -8
Well , Katie carries red, cream,and dun as well as whichever pinto/paint gene(s) are creating the white. Lokota carries, red, rabicano and whichever pinto/paint genes that are giving him white (my guess would be one of the sabino genes but I am not really firm on which genes create the blazes and socks) So their offspring would be red, red dun, palamino, or dunalino. It could not be black because neither parent carries a black gene. It would probably express the genetic factor causing face and leg white in its parents to one degree or another and could possibly also show rabicano. Visually it would most likely be one of the 4 base colours with a blaze and white below the knees.
|
|
|
Post by C.A.P on Jan 23, 2014 21:20:55 GMT -8
Red Dun, Palomino, Dunalino or Chestnut.. But I'm kind of leaning towards her having a red dun with chrome!
|
|
|
Post by kristi on Jan 24, 2014 8:08:05 GMT -8
I know what would really make me SMILE, but I have no idea what she's cooking in there! LOL If she does lose the cream gene and keep just the dun gene, it would be interesting to see - if Lokota's darker genes comes thru - what that red dun would look like (maybe like Nu Chex to Cash www.cedarridgestallions.com/pages/stallions/nuchex.html?). Only time will tell!! Does anyone have any info on the genetic difference between "sorrel" and "chestnut" (AQHA chestnut vs. Arabian)? What is it that makes some horses "liver" coloured instead of "red" like a sorrel? And is this the same gene responsible for "chocolate" or "sooty" palominos? Where and when do the dapples comes in (think Big Chex to Cash www.ridingmagazine.com/riding_onlinemag/articles/2008_10/hom-bigchex.htm) And what gene causes the grey hairs in some palominos (see Jacs Main Sail, Katie's sire for example) - is it also the "sooty"? I did a LOT of genetic research regarding colours back in the Northern BC Horse column days but I never did get anywhere on these subjects... with current DNA processes and testing evolving all the time, there may (likely!) be newer research out there that I haven't read yet.
|
|
|
Post by bullyforme on Jan 24, 2014 10:23:38 GMT -8
Sorrel or chestnut is the same gene, I have never heard anything that explains why some are darker some redder. It is like blonde hair , some is dark honey blonde some platinum, clearly there is a genetic reason since certain shades are seen in families without it being a random mix, but as far as I know there isn't an answer as to why yet.It is not the same gene as 'sooty' which will cause some horses to darken to nearly black (I had a buckskin colt who when clipped looked like he was black except around his muzzle and eyes) Sooty is often responsible for the 'mixed' manes or tails from what I have been led to understand. I have no answer for the dapples some horses show when they are in good health (silver dapples aside of course). I don't know if I have ever heard any mention of that as far as genetics go. I'm not much help I know, probably you already know everything I can tell you. LOL
|
|
|
Post by C.A.P on Jan 24, 2014 11:00:51 GMT -8
Chestnut and sorrel are 100% the same thing - there is absolutely no difference what so ever genetically between the two.. "The term "chestnut" is the more common term used to describe horses of a reddish-brown color. Chestnut is more often used to describe this color in England and on the east coast of the United States, while the term "sorrel" is more common in the Western United States. Some horse enthusiasts insist that chestnut and sorrel are two distinct colorations, but there is no known genetic difference between the two and no clear consensus on what the distinction is. Some argue that "sorrel" should be used to describe only lighter shades, or shades with a very clear reddish tint, while "chestnut" denotes darker shades or shades with more brown in them. The American Quarter Horse Association, which uses both terms, describes a sorrel as a type of copper-red chestnut, but allows that chestnut is also a correct term." Liver chestnut or dark chestnut are not a separate genetic color, but a descriptive term. The genetic controls for the depth of shade are not presently understood. A Chocolate Palomino is a dark palomino (a dark red horse with the cream gene) Sootiness is presumed to be heritable, though the precise genetic mechanism, or series of mechanisms, is not well-understood. I've also heard like Bully that dapples are a sign of good health
|
|
|
Post by charming on Jan 24, 2014 11:12:03 GMT -8
Yay.. love this
|
|
|
Post by charming on Jan 24, 2014 11:12:45 GMT -8
So what would make you smile? What are you hoping for? Spill the beans! lol
|
|
|
Post by kristi on Jan 24, 2014 15:25:19 GMT -8
Ha ha Charming you will have to wait until mid-March like I am!! LOL In the AQHA world, chestnut is generally used to describe the dark / brown / liver coloured "red" horses, while sorrel describes the normal reddish orange "red" horses. goldbar.squarespace.com/storage/ColorMarkingsChart_Sm.pdf and pics6.this-pic.com/key/horse%20color%20chart%20by%20breed - sorry, i used google images to find "AQHA color chart" so they might not come right up from there. CAP wrote: "The genetic controls for the depth of shade are not presently understood." and bully wrote: "clearly there is a genetic reason since certain shades are seen in families without it being a random mix, but as far as I know there isn't an answer as to why yet" This is what I was wondering - apparently there still has not been any research finalized as to what genetically makes those horses darker. However, when you cross a liver chestnut on a palomino, you can get some pretty funky dark palominos, which is why I had pondered the relation to "sooty", which darkens the base coat (whether diluted or not). Of course, throw in a dun gene and things can get really funky! LOL Dapples - yes, dapples as seen a on a solid "normal" base coated colour can be a sign of good health, but when you are looking at a palomino like Big Chex to Cash, that is one helluva lot more in play than just good grub (on an aside, on this forum, they call BCTC a sooty palomino www.horsegroomingsupplies.com/horse-forums/show-me-your-sooty-palominos-424516-2.html ) Just for kicks I googled images on: sooty palomino, chocolate palomino, and dark palomino. Yes, some of the photos that come up are the same (and yes, some are silver, not palomino!), but for the most park the general colours presented on those searches match what I had in mind for sooty and chocolate. It's all interesting, that's for sure! And the countdown is on... just over 6 weeks to due date... (though she only looks "well fed" as opopsed to "due in 6 weeks! )
|
|
|
Post by kristi on Jan 24, 2014 15:26:21 GMT -8
ps - something that the other forum mentioned was that sooty can create grey hairs in mane and tail in a palomino... so i do wonder if Katie has it?
|
|
|
Post by kristi on Jan 28, 2014 12:05:37 GMT -8
|
|